Duets for guitar and viola?

Question:

> Does anyone have any suggestions for duets for the guitar and viola? > I’m looking for something pretty easy, hence the post to a beginner > newgroup. > Thanks! > -Joe

The guys on rec.music.makers.bowed-strings could give you some advice. Are you looking to play classical or folk? Cathy http://www.cathycowette.com

Response:

Thanks for the suggestions! > The guys on rec.music.makers.bowed-strings could give you some advice. Are > you looking to play classical or folk?

I’m looking for pretty much anything! My wife just got a viola and we’ve discovered how fun it is to do duets. So far, we haven’t found anything. We’re can transpose music from a variety of sources, but that’s pretty time consuming at our level of ability.

Response:

Even though it is time consuming I suggest that you don’t give it up. That would be a rewarding method of forcing yourself to get better at the all around aspect of music.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks for the suggestions! > The guys on rec.music.makers.bowed-strings could give you some advice. Are > you looking to play classical or folk? > I’m looking for pretty much anything! My wife just got a viola and > we’ve discovered how fun it is to do duets. So far, we haven’t found > anything. We’re can transpose music from a variety of sources, but > that’s pretty time consuming at our level of ability.

Response:

If you can, you could always get something that is for both violin and viola (violin because they are the same on notes, you just have to know how to read notes on a staff…).

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In: Guitar Beginner

fretboard roadmaps

Question:

i just got a copy of this .man is it good i have bought some many book an this thing is broken down where it is so easy . does any one else have an use this book? if so let me know what u think of it

Response:

Its great IMO and have to say that it opened many knots of me frettingboard:) Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i just got a copy of this .man is it good i have bought some many book an > this thing is broken down where it is so easy . does any one else have an > use this book? if so let me know what u think of it

Response:

> i just got a copy of this .man is it good i have bought some many book an > this thing is broken down where it is so easy . does any one else have an > use this book? if so let me know what u think of it > if it is the book you are talking about, here is a review i found on it:

"This is an example of one of those thousands of guitar books which discusses several subjects in a superficial way and never really nails anything down in a useful way. The author has not put forth a single original idea or even bothered to present the same old stuff in a new and different way. This book is not a guide to the fretboard, it is basic music theory for absolute beginners. If you want rock solid information about the guitars fretboard skip this and do what everyone else does: get Fretboard Logic. The author has released several books under the same title with pretty much the same stuff in each one. This one is a Mel Bay retread. "

Response:

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In: Guitar Beginner Book

Visualizing music – Keyboard vs Fretboard

Question:

Hi Todd; > We don’t have the great Brahms quartets. We don’t have Haynd > string trios. We don’t have the calabre of chamber literature that other > instruments have.

We _do_ have the great and high caliber "Viol Consorts" (ensembles, quartets, and trios of bowed guitars) which few moderns know exist or ever existed, and even those who do usually don’t understand that they are _guitars_. At any rate, I’m encouraged by some of the things you say, and with luck the scholarship will improve and expand. I keep harping on these things only so that this and future generations of musicians, guitarists in particular, will be more aware of their history and go seeking it, become those scholars and players. I believe I’m the first and only guitar teacher, on the web at least, who’s made it a point to embrace, include, and expose guitarists to the Viols, complete with tutorials equivalent to my guitar section. This is something that should have been done a long time ago. I, a guitarist, should have _grown up_ knowing about and playing viols. I should be able to walk into the Guitar Center today and buy one. I feel cheated, and I’m pissed ;’) Someone’s been f*cking with my guitars (my music, my love) and for too long, denying me the pleasure and joy of having a _bowed_ string instrument in my stable. Guitarists are the rightful heirs of the Viol legacy, it’s our instrument. But our learned educators apparently felt we guitarists didn’t need to know about them. I only learned of Viols by accident and then it still took me a while to realize what they were, "vihuela de arco" (vihuelas played with an arc, a bow). Feast your eyes (and someday your ears) on these puppies (you’all). These are guitars! http://www.mdw.ac.at/I105/orpheon/Seiten/exhibition/Degustation2002.htm They are _your_ instruments, part of your family! The "scholars" have kept them locked away in vaults for the last 200 years! saving them for hom? –> YOU <– Claim them. The violin and cello players don’t want nor appreciate them, and can’t play them either (they’re not tuned in 5ths, it’s not their animal, they don’t think chordally) To them Viols are just quaint historical relics, museum curiosities, obsolete and essentially useless. But Violin and Cello trios and Quartets, their composers and compositions, owe their existence to _THESE_ instruments, viola de gambas, guitars! Guitars _are_ the "classical" instrument, the architype, the foundation — of European Classical string music! This is why I say when people "remember" what guitars _are_ and have contributed all along, then we’ll get more "seats". But we’ve forgotten. Thanks and again, forgive the rant, we’re in agreement Todd, this is just one of those things that gets my blood boiling and I can’t seem to restrain myself ;’) Roger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Roger, > I enjoyed reading your post. You brought for some great ideas that I agree > with. Yes, it is a shame that the past (prior to about 1830) is ignored. In > music in general, there was life before Bach as well. > A great deal of the greatest music was conceived and written on lutes, and to a > lesser extent on the vihuela. Unless someone has taken the time to "transcribe" > the tablature for the keyboard, then this music is not accecable to scholars. > Anyone who has worked with tablature can know that no "transcription" can do > justice to the original. There are simply too many ambigious instances and > subjective choices to be made concerning voices. > I heard Jeffrey Van make an interesting comment. I am not sure I agree or not, > but it -does- make a good point. I am paraphrasing. We we on the discussion of > HIP (historically informed practice) and all the rave about performing on period > instruments. Jeff made the point that there is a far -greater- difference > between a baroque violin and modern violin than there is between a modern > guitar, a 19th century guitar and even a lute. Some food for thought even if > one might not agree. > Lastly, I would like to briefly comment on the guitar coming of age and getting > its fair share of the pie. In my opinion, that will best happen when guitarists > begin acting like other musicians. It is a rare thing to see the solo recital. > Musicians play with other musicans! In a way, the guitar may be at a > disadvantage. We don’t have the great Brahms quartets. We don’t have Haynd > string trios. We don’t have the calabre of chamber literature that other > instruments have. > But you know what? That is changing, and quickly. There is an -abundance- of > modern chamber repertoire out there with the guitar. All sorts of guitarists > out there from Jeffrey Van, David Starobin, William Anderson, etc. are bringing > this music to the public. And in these settings, the audience isn’t just the > local guitar society members. They are the -music- listening general public. > Times have never been better for a student of the guitar. Pedagogy has made > great advances in the last 20 years. Almost anyone who wants to can go study > with the cream of the crop as well. There is a great deal of repertoire for the > beginning students to get their fill of renessaince, baroque, classic, romantic, > 20th century, to contemporary music of our time. However, as I mentioned in > another post, there are gaps in chamber music along the way. But when a student > arives at a particular level, more and more of that music becomes available. > be well, > Todd > > > …but maybe our music educators are > > > finally catching on (but perhaps too late?). > > I doubt it. The full time seats for guitarists in the universities is a > very > > small number. The tenured among them could probably be counted on > fingers. In > > addition, many of these folks (even the adjunct) often -are- the most > noted > > performers out there. Compare that with a typical university setting of 6 > to 8 > > folks in the piano department (often virtually unknown in the music > world): and > > some of which should have retired -long- ago. > > be well, > > Todd > Hi Todd; > Maybe someday the entire class of instrument lute/viol/guitar will be > recognized as such (a single same thing) and broaden our associations of > what guitar is. That would lead us to consider it’s greater family > repertoire, push the historical timeline back, and generate greater respect > generally. That more encompassing "seat" is not only needed, but "they" > might be more easily convinced that they need it too — when it’s presented > to them that way, as one single same family of music making machines. Sadly, > most people think guitar began around 1850, completely ignoring the previous > 400 years of it’s family legacy and musical contributions. > Maybe the biggest problem is our too-narrow definition of what "Classical" > music is. Again, most people, educators too, think Classical music begins in > the 1700s, and everything is geared around that, and around perserving and > perpetuating that small fraction of musical history, it’s period instruments > too (violins and then pianos in particular) and of coarse it’s period > orchestras. Kings orchestras in the 1600s and 1500s were populated by guess > what — lutes and viols (guitars!). > Every chair and department head of every University on earth is now of the > age that they _grew up_ on Rock and Roll. The guitar era has been in force > long enough that there’s no excuse at this point in history. There’s much > less of a generation gap than there was just 20 years ago. The generations > of music teachers who didn’t appreciate guitar (enough) are either dead or > retired now. It’s our world now, to change as we need. And it can be done. > Viols, bowed guitars, are the missing link. If we can get more of them in > the public eye again our collective perspective and sense of history will > change (I believe). Once that happens, once we remember what the greater > guitar family has meant to us all along, there will be no room for > resistance or denial any longer, it will be as clear as day, indisputable, > even they will feel remiss, irresponsible, if they don’t recognize the > guitars at last. > Thanks > Roger

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> …but maybe our music educators are > finally catching on (but perhaps too late?). > I doubt it. The full time seats for guitarists in the universities is a very > small number. The tenured among them could probably be counted on fingers. In > addition, many of these folks (even the adjunct) often -are- the most noted > performers out there. Compare that with a typical university setting of 6 to 8 > folks in the piano department (often virtually unknown in the music world): and > some of which should have retired -long- ago. > be well, > Todd

Hi Todd; Maybe someday the entire class of instrument lute/viol/guitar will be recognized as such (a single same thing) and broaden our associations of what guitar is. That would lead us to consider it’s greater family repertoire, push the historical timeline back, and generate greater respect generally. That more encompassing "seat" is not only needed, but "they" might be more easily convinced that they need it too — when it’s presented to them that way, as one single same family of music making machines. Sadly, most people think guitar began around 1850, completely ignoring the previous 400 years of it’s family legacy and musical contributions. Maybe the biggest problem is our too-narrow definition of what "Classical" music is. Again, most people, educators too, think Classical music begins in the 1700s, and everything is geared around that, and around perserving and perpetuating that small fraction of musical history, it’s period instruments too (violins and then pianos in particular) and of coarse it’s period orchestras. Kings orchestras in the 1600s and 1500s were populated by guess what — lutes and viols (guitars!). Every chair and department head of every University on earth is now of the age that they _grew up_ on Rock and Roll. The guitar era has been in force long enough that there’s no excuse at this point in history. There’s much less of a generation gap than there was just 20 years ago. The generations of music teachers who didn’t appreciate guitar (enough) are either dead or retired now. It’s our world now, to change as we need. And it can be done. Viols, bowed guitars, are the missing link. If we can get more of them in the public eye again our collective perspective and sense of history will change (I believe). Once that happens, once we remember what the greater guitar family has meant to us all along, there will be no room for resistance or denial any longer, it will be as clear as day, indisputable, even they will feel remiss, irresponsible, if they don’t recognize the guitars at last. Thanks Roger

Response:

> At the gig last night I was talking to one of the women in our band who > actually went to music school. She was saying everyone there, regardless of > major instrument, had to learn keyboard. I remembered hearing this from > some guys I knew who went to Berklee in Boston. She said the reason for > this was because the keyboard was the best place to actually visualize the > notes and their relationship to each other.

I think the first part of her statement answers the question, "everyone there, regardless of major instrument, had to learn keyboard". It sounds like a (common) departmental decision. If you open up a course catalog from just about any college or university and look at the prerequisites or corequisites for the theory courses, you will find a keyboard class listed. Many people going to school for music are studying a melody instrument, rhythm instrument, or voice. Learning the keyboard helps to understand harmony, as well as melody, and the western 12-tone system that is used in the theory course. It also facilitates a couple of issues that are more piano based, such as figured bass. As far as being the "best place to visualize the notes"… IMO that just comes across as ignorance or elitism. If you want to think that because the notes are next to each other, then it would seem that a harp is even more ideal than a piano. If the argument is that the natural notes are all in a row, and that facilitates the comparisons of structures, then you have to note that it only works for the key of C (Key of Am), and it trains the brain to believe in some superiority in tonal music (or at least that there is something sensible in the western system of major and minor keys). I taught myself enough keyboard to teach myself theory, because i believed others who told me it was necessary to learn the keyboard to learn theory. I could clearly see after the process, that although there were a few minor issues where it helped (generally analyzing music written for the keyboard), it is possible to learn threory without studying the keyboard. And in fact the guitar is an excellent instrument to learn theory on. There are some issues (regarding tuning systems, etc.) that can be more easily understood on a tunable string instrument than on a keyboard. Unfortunately, there aren’t many books written on theory from the guitarists point of view (theory itself is not based on any instrument, but can be applied to instruments). Some would suggest that it is necessary to read standard notation to learn theory. This is also not true. Unfortunately, the vast majority of what has been written down about theory since the time of Bach has been written in standard notation, and if you want to access that info for yourself you will probably need to learn to read standard noatation. I’ve nothing against standard notation, i teach it to my students, but it is not necessary to teach theory. The pythagoreans were discussing theory long before standard notation or the piano were invented. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I can appreciate that this might be the classical view, but being a > guitarist who is not unfamiliar with the keyboard I don’t necessarily agree. > Way back when I was learning the dreaded F chord, it dawned on me that this > was an E chord one fret up. The notes all maintained their relationship to > each other, just a half step higher. If it worked on the first fret, it > should work at the fifth. I tried it and sure enough, there was the A chord > just sitting there. Bang, the door to understanding slammed open wide and I > saw how it all went together. The key to it all was movable shapes. > This is not so apparent on the keyboard. You move a half step in either > direction and the shapes change; it doesn’t leap out at you. > Do others share the same perception, or is this just because I’m fretboard > oriented? Or more specifically, because as a self taught guitarist, I > first learned chords and moved backwards to appreciate theory as opposed to > schooled players who learn theory and build scales and chords from it?

I think most of the professors in schools came through a specific sequence of courses, and they see the logic in it, and have not really questioned that pedagogy. It’s easy to understand how a music department could say that they want to make sure that everyone starts on more or less an even level, and if they can guarantee a certain basic understanding to build from. I’ve known many pianists over the years who thought they knew theory because they had teachers who used method books with the word theory printed on the front of them. Those books are little more than note spellers. One of the unfortunate consequences of such books is that not only are piano students duped into believing that learning to read standard notation and learning the major and minor scales in all 12 keys equals theory, but other music students see these books and get the same wrong impression. Theory is so much larger than that. My suggestion, if you’re looking to delve deeper into theory is to go to your local college or university and enroll in a theory course. If that doesn’t suit you, roll down to your local college or university, and pick up a theory textbook. Many colleges have beginners courses for those who didn’t pass the entrance requirements for the theory classes (some places call these "fundamentals" classes), pick up that book first, and work through it. Then go back and get the theory text for theory 101 (it’s probably expensive and meant to be used for more than one course). Some of the fundamentals books are self-teaching "programmed" courses, which is an excellent way to teach yourself. After working through the first semester or first year’s worth of theory , you might want to pick up a book on Jazz theory, which will probably be more applicable (you could pick one up earlier, Levine has a good one , so does Jaffe, Levine’s is more in-depth IMO). Definately pick up a textbook. There is some good info on the web, but there is a ton of junk on the web as well. It will be hard to tell the junk from the treasure if you’re not sure what you’re looking at. You might also ask questions at rec.music.theory , which is a fairly nice group. my two cents. Peace, Christopher Roberts

Response:

> That’s like saying Berklee is the best school so everyone must attend! > No it isn’t. I just happend to know a couple of guys who went there and > remembered them telling me this. That’s not the focus of my question, just > an aside.

You totally missed my analogy. I was comparing Berklee but it could’ve just as easily been a keyboard. Never mind.

Response:

Hi Todd. Forgive me if I use that linked article as an excuse to rant a little (thanks for the link). except from that article, sub-head "MAKE WAY FOR THE GUITAR ERA"; ". . . I see many students today, perhaps a majority, coming to musical creativity from the guitar rather than the piano, as they used to, or any other instrument. This could have profound consequences. In the Renaissance, composers usually got their start as child singers. Baroque and Classical composers were often string players (Corelli and Haydn, the violin; Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven, the viola). Romantic and modern composers were more often than not pianists. Such choices have profound consequences, and if there really is a sea-change of composers now coming from the guitar world rather than the piano, that alone could bring about a rift in musical eras. . ." The heading, "MAKE WAY FOR THE GUITAR ERA", is remarkable — a recognition that seems 20 years over due (if not 50), but maybe our music educators are finally catching on (but perhaps too late?). As for any "rifts" in musical eras (or between cultures and classes), depending on how you look at it the rifts have either always exited or never existed. But the idea that a supposedly "new" guitar-based musicianship "training and breeding ground" will _create_ the rift is again either non-sense, or it’s crying over spilt milk (it already happened long ago). Inadequate, antiquated, or non-existent _music education_, perpetuating cultural ignorance or/and amnesia, is the best way to create culture-rifts. Try getting your heads around this curious fact (I certainly can’t); Fretted viols (viola da gamba) were GUITARS, bowed guitars. Renaissance and Baroque Viols and lutes (guitars) were one of the primary BREEDING GROUNDs for our later Classical music! How many of us (guitarists or general public) in the 1950’s, 60’s, 70’s, 80, 90’s, 2010’s, grew up knowing that? How does such a thing _escape_ the attention of our music educators — the ones who poo-poo-ed the guitar in favor of pianos and violins? How does such a fundamental cultural and historical linkage and point of continuity escape their attention, those music educators charged with enlightening us culturally, those would-be custodians of our heritage and history, the ones hoping to "inspire" others to take up the torch of historical musics and performance? Guitars=Rift? the death-mill of Classical music? Non-Sense! Sit some guitarists down in front of a good Viola da Gamba player (bowed guitarist) and see how fast their memories get jogged! What could be a better default and universal "trainer" instrument that a fretted, bowed, guitar tuned, string instrument, one capable of playing fluid *melody* lines _and_ chords, plucked or bowed, suitable for ensemble playing, tab friendly, a music theory fundamentals illustrator and trainer (both melody and harmony), and a link to past and present musics and musicians — Viola da Gamba, Bowed Guitar. [But that would be too easy.] "Profound consequences" indeed. Roger http://www.thecipher.com/viola_da_gamba_cipher.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think to understand the perspective of the keyboard, one must consider the > larger picture. There are two factors that I believe contribute. One is, the > guitar is a relative newcomer in the institution of education. Second, not > considering the guitar, almost all instrument are melodic instruments. The > keyboard -is- a great learning tool. I am not implying that the keyboard isn’t > a great learning tool for guitarists, rather I am suggesting that our > perspective is not considered. > Here is an interesting article though: > http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/archives20031101.shtml > PostClassic > Kyle Gann on Music After the Fact… > Friday, November 28, 2003 > MAKE WAY FOR THE GUITAR ERA > Something else I meant to add about my students and the piano: Perhaps it’s just > Bard culture, but I see many students today, perhaps a majority, coming to > musical creativity from the guitar rather than the piano, as they used to, or > any other instrument. This could have profound consequences. In the Renaissance, > composers usually got their start as child singers. Baroque and Classical > composers were often string players (Corelli and Haydn, the violin; Bach, > Mozart, and Beethoven, the viola). Romantic and modern composers were more often > than not pianists. Such choices have profound consequences, and if there really > is a sea-change of composers now coming from the guitar world rather than the > piano, that alone could bring about a rift in musical eras. Berlioz, who played > the clarinet and guitar, was almost the only non-pianist composer of his era, > and as a result became its most innovative orchestrator. Guitarists visualize > music theory in more contextual, less fixed and abstract, ways than pianists do. > Interval size is less of a constant for them, melodies more conveniently leap > throughout the register than proceed by steps, and their instruments are easily > retunable and portable, tremendously louder (if electric), and carrying no > upper-class connotations. By their 20s, these composers have been conditioned by > a completely different relationship to pitch and volume than the > pianist-composers of my generation and earlier. I’m curious as to whether > professors in other music departments notice the same demographic change. > And this is not to even mention the other new musical instrument nearly as > ubiquitous as the guitar: the laptop computer. > be well, > Todd

Response:

I agree with this post entirely. Music theory seems to be more intuitive to the piano. Any music historians here? Was ’standard’ musical notation standardized around the piano? That would explain a lot wouldn’t it? When I started learning theory (self taught of course) I found myself going to the keyboard to understand where the accidentals are supposed to be for each key, how to turn a major chord into a minor, etc. Now that I’m a year along in my quest to learn theory (only a few decades left to go before I get it, right? ) the keyboard means less and less now that the theory as applied to the fretboard is starting to come together. Sniffinvinyl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> At the gig last night I was talking to one of the women in our band who > actually went to music school. She was saying everyone there, regardless > of > major instrument, had to learn keyboard. I remembered hearing this from > some guys I knew who went to Berklee in Boston. She said the reason for > this was because the keyboard was the best place to actually visualize the > notes and their relationship to each other. > I can appreciate that this might be the classical view, but being a > guitarist who is not unfamiliar with the keyboard I don’t necessarily > agree. > Way back when I was learning the dreaded F chord, it dawned on me that > this > was an E chord one fret up. The notes all maintained their relationship > to > each other, just a half step higher. If it worked on the first fret, it > should work at the fifth. I tried it and sure enough, there was the A > chord > just sitting there. Bang, the door to understanding slammed open wide and > I > saw how it all went together. The key to it all was movable shapes. > This is not so apparent on the keyboard. You move a half step in either > direction and the shapes change; it doesn’t leap out at you. > Do others share the same perception, or is this just because I’m fretboard > oriented? Or more specifically, because as a self taught guitarist, I > first learned chords and moved backwards to appreciate theory as opposed > to > schooled players who learn theory and build scales and chords from it? > I’m the same as you. I learned guitar on my own, and several years later > took piano lessons. I have to agree with the woman, though. While there are > some people who can see the relationships between chords on a fretboard, > it’s something that developes over a period of time, not as you are learning > each chord. And there are many guitar players who are unable to see these > relationships. Keyboard players learn music theory in steps, as they are > progressing. First off, they learn how to read music. Most guitar players > don’t. Keyboard players are able to see the simple things, like which note > is changed to turn a chord into a 7th or a minor. They also know which > chords have sharps or flats, whereas the average guitar player doesn’t. Many > guitar players are just taught the chord shapes and that’s it. There are a > select few who will go beyond that and force themselves to learn music > theory as it applies to the fretboard, but that’s generally after the fact, > especially if self taught. > A good piano teacher will introduce theory in the first few lessons and will > build on it through progressive lessons. A good guitar teacher will also do > the same. The difference is, most piano players have learned their > instrument by taking lessons. The majority of guitar players are self taught > and have will not taken the time to learn theory, or will learn it years > later. > Cathy > http://www.cathycowette.com

Response:

At the gig last night I was talking to one of the women in our band who actually went to music school. She was saying everyone there, regardless of major instrument, had to learn keyboard. I remembered hearing this from some guys I knew who went to Berklee in Boston. She said the reason for this was because the keyboard was the best place to actually visualize the notes and their relationship to each other. I can appreciate that this might be the classical view, but being a guitarist who is not unfamiliar with the keyboard I don’t necessarily agree. Way back when I was learning the dreaded F chord, it dawned on me that this was an E chord one fret up. The notes all maintained their relationship to each other, just a half step higher. If it worked on the first fret, it should work at the fifth. I tried it and sure enough, there was the A chord just sitting there. Bang, the door to understanding slammed open wide and I saw how it all went together. The key to it all was movable shapes. This is not so apparent on the keyboard. You move a half step in either direction and the shapes change; it doesn’t leap out at you. Do others share the same perception, or is this just because I’m fretboard oriented? Or more specifically, because as a self taught guitarist, I first learned chords and moved backwards to appreciate theory as opposed to schooled players who learn theory and build scales and chords from it?

Response:

<snip> That’s like saying Berklee is the best school so everyone must attend! It may very well be the best school but there are tons of great musicians that did not attend. The keyboard may very well be the easiest way for most people to visualize but if you are capable of visualizing it on the guitar is it really necessary? I think not. Brian

Response:

> That’s like saying Berklee is the best school so everyone must attend!

No it isn’t. I just happend to know a couple of guys who went there and remembered them telling me this. That’s not the focus of my question, just an aside.

Response:

I’m the same as you. I learned guitar on my own, and several years later took piano lessons. I have to agree with the woman, though. While there are some people who can see the relationships between chords on a fretboard, it’s something that developes over a period of time, not as you are learning each chord. And there are many guitar players who are unable to see these relationships. Keyboard players learn music theory in steps, as they are progressing. First off, they learn how to read music. Most guitar players don’t. Keyboard players are able to see the simple things, like which note is changed to turn a chord into a 7th or a minor. They also know which chords have sharps or flats, whereas the average guitar player doesn’t. Many guitar players are just taught the chord shapes and that’s it. There are a select few who will go beyond that and force themselves to learn music theory as it applies to the fretboard, but that’s generally after the fact, especially if self taught. A good piano teacher will introduce theory in the first few lessons and will build on it through progressive lessons. A good guitar teacher will also do the same. The difference is, most piano players have learned their instrument by taking lessons. The majority of guitar players are self taught and have will not taken the time to learn theory, or will learn it years later. Cathy http://www.cathycowette.com

Response:

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In: Guitar Beginner Book

New Lyrics-She Talks To Jesus

Question:

Thanks J. — Sheli http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/shelianthony.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <I’m not defending that lunatic by any stretch of the <imagination, but you > <did ask for opinions on your lyrics and he gave you his. > <A post like this is much better suited for <rec.music.makers.songwriting > than > <alt.guitar.beginner. This really isn’t a lyric group so <IMHO you’re only > <asking for trouble (like Lunatic Church gave you) or a <pat on the back > (like > <the rest gave you) by asking in here. If you truly want <honest opinions > on > <your lyrics you ought to ask at rmms, that’s what they do <over there as > <you’re fully aware (I’ve seen you over there in the past). > <Brian > I disagree. It’s refreshing to see posts that are actually related to guitar > (I consider this related, I assume it will be played acoustic). I as a > beginner want to know who’s playing, writing and making progress. It takes a > confident person to post lyrics that may or may not be of others liking and > may generate criticism. These posts give me a reference point for my own > progress. >If you would, could you comment on my new song lyrics > I think the lyrics are fantastic. I do have a suggestion regarding the > amount of words in each line. The song may flow better if you were to remove > words like "but", "of", "and", and limiting "she". > I noticed this with songs on soundclick (not yours). The Artist seems to > rush through the line to get all the words in, words that probably aren’t > necessary. salt > J

Response:

Thanks Rookie. I appreciate the comments. — Sheli http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/shelianthony.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If you would, could you comment on my new song lyrics:) > Thanks In Advance! > That was very beautiful Sheli.

Response:

I know this is not a lyric group, but I also know that people write songs here as well. That is why I posted it here. I post all my songs on rec.music.makers.songwriting. Figured I’d get more feeback here. Usually it’s just the songwriters from this group who do respond to me. They email me constructive feedback, which is exactly what I was looking for. I don’t believe I am asking for trouble if only two or three people who are rude post things like that. I am asking for feedback, which I get whether these people respond or not. I take what I need from them and the rest I ignore…which is my suggestion to most people here who let people like that bother you:) Sheli – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why would you purposely change someone’s lyrics like that???? > <snip> > I’m not defending that lunatic by any stretch of the imagination, but you > did ask for opinions on your lyrics and he gave you his. > A post like this is much better suited for rec.music.makers.songwriting than > alt.guitar.beginner. This really isn’t a lyric group so IMHO you’re only > asking for trouble (like Lunatic Church gave you) or a pat on the back (like > the rest gave you) by asking in here. If you truly want honest opinions on > your lyrics you ought to ask at rmms, that’s what they do over there as > you’re fully aware (I’ve seen you over there in the past). > Brian

Response:

> Unfortunately I only have virtual frequent flyer miles….not real ones or > I’d give them to you. LOL > — > Sheli > http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm > http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/shelianthony.htm

Ahhhh, the virtual miles. I’ve racked up a few of those over the years. Unfortunately, they aren’t good for anything except for peace of mind. Cathy http://www.cathycowette.com

Response:

I like this! Keep it coming gp.

Response:

I will this weekend…still tweaking the melody:) — Sheli http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/shelianthony.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey Sheli, > Any chance of you putting up a sound file? > be well, > Todd

Response:

Why would you purposely change someone’s lyrics like that???? — Sheli http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/shelianthony.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -><If you would, could you comment on my new song lyrics:) ><Thanks In Advance! > Just my opinion, but it sucks. >< re-write: ><She Talks To Jesus ><(G)She looks at the moon and wonders why the hell she cares. ><(D)Anywhere but here would be ok ><(Am7)She daydreams of blue skies and of sleeping through the night ><(D)But that won’t be happening anyway. ><Chorus ><(D)She looks in the mirror like she’s looking through the wall. ><When no one’s around she talks to (G)Jesus ><(D)Earns her frequent flyer miles traveling back to hell. ><(Am7)And making plans she thinks will please us. ><Verse 2 >< ><(G)She grasps her cup of coffee like she’s holding on to life ><(D)The answers seem so far away ><(Am7)She wishes she had something cutting through the night ><(D)But that ain’t gona happen (G)anyway ><Chorus ><(D)She looks in the mirror like she’s looking through the wall. ><(Am7)When no one’s around she talks to (G)Jesus ><(D)Earns her frequent flyer miles traveling back to hell ><(Am7)And making plans she thinks will please us. ><Chorus ><(D)She looks in the mirror like she’s looking through the wall. ><When no one’s around she talks to (G)Jesus ><(D)Earns her frequent flyer miles traveling back to hell. ><(Am7)And making plans she thinks will please us.

Response:

> Why would you purposely change someone’s lyrics like that????

<snip> I’m not defending that lunatic by any stretch of the imagination, but you did ask for opinions on your lyrics and he gave you his. A post like this is much better suited for rec.music.makers.songwriting than alt.guitar.beginner. This really isn’t a lyric group so IMHO you’re only asking for trouble (like Lunatic Church gave you) or a pat on the back (like the rest gave you) by asking in here. If you truly want honest opinions on your lyrics you ought to ask at rmms, that’s what they do over there as you’re fully aware (I’ve seen you over there in the past). Brian

Response:

<I’m not defending that lunatic by any stretch of the <imagination, but you <did ask for opinions on your lyrics and he gave you his. <A post like this is much better suited for <rec.music.makers.songwriting than <alt.guitar.beginner. This really isn’t a lyric group so <IMHO you’re only <asking for trouble (like Lunatic Church gave you) or a <pat on the back (like <the rest gave you) by asking in here. If you truly want <honest opinions on <your lyrics you ought to ask at rmms, that’s what they do <over there as <you’re fully aware (I’ve seen you over there in the past). <Brian I disagree. It’s refreshing to see posts that are actually related to guitar (I consider this related, I assume it will be played acoustic). I as a beginner want to know who’s playing, writing and making progress. It takes a confident person to post lyrics that may or may not be of others liking and may generate criticism. These posts give me a reference point for my own progress. >If you would, could you comment on my new song lyrics

I think the lyrics are fantastic. I do have a suggestion regarding the amount of words in each line. The song may flow better if you were to remove words like "but", "of", "and", and limiting "she". I noticed this with songs on soundclick (not yours). The Artist seems to rush through the line to get all the words in, words that probably aren’t necessary. J

Response:

> Hehehe…yes indeed. Music is the best resource to get our feelings out. > I’ve been unhappy with my travel agent lately, too. > Thanks for the comments. > — > Sheli > http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm

I sent my travel agent packing a long time ago. Cathy http://www.cathycowette.com

Response:

In that case, wanna borrow some of my frequent flyer miles? LOL — Sheli http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/shelianthony.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hehehe…yes indeed. Music is the best resource to get our feelings out. > I’ve been unhappy with my travel agent lately, too. > Thanks for the comments. > — > Sheli > http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm > I sent my travel agent packing a long time ago. > Cathy > http://www.cathycowette.com

Response:

Hehehe…yes indeed. Music is the best resource to get our feelings out. I’ve been unhappy with my travel agent lately, too. Thanks for the comments. — Sheli http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/shelianthony.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> well, it speaks to me. I think many of us turn to music because we’re > unhappy with our "travel agent" and his sick humor ;’) > Roger > If you would, could you comment on my new song lyrics:) > Thanks In Advance! > She Talks To Jesus Capo 1st fret > Copyright Sheli Anthony 2004 > Verse 1 > (G)She looks at the moon and wonders what if she were there > (D)Anywhere but here would be ok > (Am7)She daydreams of blue skies and of sleeping through the night > (D)But that won’t be happening (G)today > (D)But that won’t be happening (G)today > Chorus > (D)She looks in the mirror like she’s looking at a stranger > (Am7)When no one’s around she talks to (G)Jesus > (D)Earns her frequent flyer miles traveling to hell and back > (Am7)And making plans to visit once (D)again > (Am)She’s making plans(D)to visit once(G)again > Verse 2 > (G)She grasps her cup of coffee like she’s holding on for life > (D)The answers seem so far away > (Am7)She wishes she had something stronger to hold on to > (D)But that won’t be happening (G)today > (D)But that won’t be happening (G)today > Chorus > (D)She looks in the mirror like she’s looking at a stranger > (Am7)When no one’s around she talks to (G)Jesus > (D)Earns her frequent flyer miles traveling to hell and back > (Am7)And making plans to visit once (D)again > (Am)She’s making plans(D)to visit once(G)again > Chorus > (D)She looks in the mirror like she’s looking at a stranger > (Am7)When no one’s around she talks to (G)Jesus > (D)Earns her frequent flyer miles traveling to hell and back > (Am7)And making plans to visit once (D)again > (Am)She’s making plans(D)to visit once(G)again > — > Sheli > http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm > http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/shelianthony.htm

Response:

Unfortunately I only have virtual frequent flyer miles….not real ones or I’d give them to you. LOL — Sheli http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/shelianthony.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> http://www.cathycowette.com > In that case, wanna borrow some of my frequent flyer miles? LOL > — > Sheli > http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm > http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/shelianthony.htm > Would they get me to EC7 and back? > Cathy > http://www.cathycowette.com

Response:

http://www.cathycowette.com

> In that case, wanna borrow some of my frequent flyer miles? LOL > — > Sheli > http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm > http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/shelianthony.htm

Would they get me to EC7 and back? Cathy http://www.cathycowette.com

Response:

If you would, could you comment on my new song lyrics:) Thanks In Advance! She Talks To Jesus Capo 1st fret Copyright Sheli Anthony 2004 Verse 1 (G)She looks at the moon and wonders what if she were there (D)Anywhere but here would be ok (Am7)She daydreams of blue skies and of sleeping through the night (D)But that won’t be happening (G)today (D)But that won’t be happening (G)today Chorus (D)She looks in the mirror like she’s looking at a stranger (Am7)When no one’s around she talks to (G)Jesus (D)Earns her frequent flyer miles traveling to hell and back (Am7)And making plans to visit once (D)again (Am)She’s making plans(D)to visit once(G)again Verse 2 (G)She grasps her cup of coffee like she’s holding on for life (D)The answers seem so far away (Am7)She wishes she had something stronger to hold on to (D)But that won’t be happening (G)today (D)But that won’t be happening (G)today Chorus (D)She looks in the mirror like she’s looking at a stranger (Am7)When no one’s around she talks to (G)Jesus (D)Earns her frequent flyer miles traveling to hell and back (Am7)And making plans to visit once (D)again (Am)She’s making plans(D)to visit once(G)again Chorus (D)She looks in the mirror like she’s looking at a stranger (Am7)When no one’s around she talks to (G)Jesus (D)Earns her frequent flyer miles traveling to hell and back (Am7)And making plans to visit once (D)again (Am)She’s making plans(D)to visit once(G)again — Sheli http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/shelianthony.htm

Response:

well, it speaks to me. I think many of us turn to music because we’re unhappy with our "travel agent" and his sick humor ;’) Roger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If you would, could you comment on my new song lyrics:) > Thanks In Advance! > She Talks To Jesus Capo 1st fret > Copyright Sheli Anthony 2004 > Verse 1 > (G)She looks at the moon and wonders what if she were there > (D)Anywhere but here would be ok > (Am7)She daydreams of blue skies and of sleeping through the night > (D)But that won’t be happening (G)today > (D)But that won’t be happening (G)today > Chorus > (D)She looks in the mirror like she’s looking at a stranger > (Am7)When no one’s around she talks to (G)Jesus > (D)Earns her frequent flyer miles traveling to hell and back > (Am7)And making plans to visit once (D)again > (Am)She’s making plans(D)to visit once(G)again > Verse 2 > (G)She grasps her cup of coffee like she’s holding on for life > (D)The answers seem so far away > (Am7)She wishes she had something stronger to hold on to > (D)But that won’t be happening (G)today > (D)But that won’t be happening (G)today > Chorus > (D)She looks in the mirror like she’s looking at a stranger > (Am7)When no one’s around she talks to (G)Jesus > (D)Earns her frequent flyer miles traveling to hell and back > (Am7)And making plans to visit once (D)again > (Am)She’s making plans(D)to visit once(G)again > Chorus > (D)She looks in the mirror like she’s looking at a stranger > (Am7)When no one’s around she talks to (G)Jesus > (D)Earns her frequent flyer miles traveling to hell and back > (Am7)And making plans to visit once (D)again > (Am)She’s making plans(D)to visit once(G)again > — > Sheli > http://www.yourinspection.com/shelispage.htm > http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/shelianthony.htm

Response:

Permalink · Leave a comment
In: Guitar Beginner Online

should i get this?

Question:

The majority of Squire’s I have played were not good. The build quality is ok but the pickups, electronics and hardware leave much to be desired. But I was highly surprised when a friend let me play his new Squire. It was some sort of Telecaster reissue. Much like the Fender 52 reissue. Butterscotch color and 50’s looking hardware. It played, looked and sounded as good as the ‘52 reissue. It seems, at least by this model, that Squire’s are moving up in quality. Pt

Response:

> I make

Permalink · Leave a comment
In: Guitar Beginner Book

This use to be a good group

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >>> That was before all the bickering. Maybe I’ll check in later, as in > > >>> a few weeks, to see if it calmed down. > > >>> Thanks to all who answered my questions. > > >>> Mike > > >> This group is still fine. The bickering to useful info ratio is > > >> still not that bad. > > > Everything is fine until you get into one of those "Which is better?" > > > discussions, and even then it’s not too back until a few people > > > decide that their "opinion" should be taken as god’s law. > > > Unfortunately, it can be difficult for a beginner to separate fact > > > from opinion. > > Still, it’s certainly no reason to leave. > Certainly not. Easy enough to recognize and killfile bad attitudes, just a > shame they sometimes belong to those who, were it not for intolerably > childish behavior, might otherwise be worth the read! The only thing that > isn’t so simple to work around is hijacked threads that eventually return >to > topic! Can often be a bear to find the reinsertion point without losing > interest and giving up! I know some may see this as impatience but others > know it as time management… lol > I have been here seven years. Contrary to what some may think, I was >*not* a founder of this group, but I have been posting here since the >second or third day it was in existence. > From time to time, there have been disagreements withing the group – >even some moderately heated ones. But the group has never become a >cesspool, as long as posts and responses have stayed *in the group*. >Closest it has come is always one of two things: Cross posts is #1 on >the list. It is hard to get into the habit of always looking to see >where the post is from (alt.guitar beginner, or a.g.b and seven other >groups) but it’s worth the effort to get into that habit. If you don’t >check and backspace out the other groups, your response doesn’t just >come here – it goes to all the other groups listed, which brings >responses X5 into this group. That’s trouble – big trouble. Save this >one, there isn’t a guitar-oriented group on Usenet that isn’t mostly a >nonstop dick-measuring contest, with occasional worthwhile posts. First >line of defense: Always check to see if any post is cross posted! > The other thing is the occasional pest/pill/boatrocker/troller who >shows up on every Usenet group (I’m speaking in generalities here, not >specifics, but it happens on every group). There is a magic bullet for >those, too – IGNORE THEM. >But it takes *everybody* doing it to work – then it works like a charm. > There’s a bit of rough sledding here right now. It’s happened >before, it will happen again. But if you observe points one and two >I’ve mentioned above, I guarantee you it will smooth out again a whole >lot quicker than if you don’t. >The Old Guy >—-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet >News==—- >http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 >Newsgroups >—= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption >=—

Tony, You haven’t given a bad piece of advice as long as I can remember, so I guess I’ll follow this one too. BTW, I don’t know what was going on with the thread that said you were leaving, but I’m glad you’re still here. Eric

Response:

are you all done making love in the dark corners yet???

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > >>> That was before all the bickering. Maybe I’ll check in later, as in >> > >>> a few weeks, to see if it calmed down. >> > >>> Thanks to all who answered my questions. >> > >>> Mike >> > >> This group is still fine. The bickering to useful info ratio is >> > >> still not that bad. >> > > Everything is fine until you get into one of those "Which is better?" >> > > discussions, and even then it’s not too back until a few people >> > > decide that their "opinion" should be taken as god’s law. >> > > Unfortunately, it can be difficult for a beginner to separate fact >> > > from opinion. >> > Still, it’s certainly no reason to leave. >> Certainly not. Easy enough to recognize and killfile bad attitudes, just a >> shame they sometimes belong to those who, were it not for intolerably >> childish behavior, might otherwise be worth the read! The only thing that >> isn’t so simple to work around is hijacked threads that eventually return >to >> topic! Can often be a bear to find the reinsertion point without losing >> interest and giving up! I know some may see this as impatience but others >> know it as time management… lol > I have been here seven years. Contrary to what some may think, I was >*not* a founder of this group, but I have been posting here since the >second or third day it was in existence. > From time to time, there have been disagreements withing the group – >even some moderately heated ones. But the group has never become a >cesspool, as long as posts and responses have stayed *in the group*. >Closest it has come is always one of two things: Cross posts is #1 on >the list. It is hard to get into the habit of always looking to see >where the post is from (alt.guitar beginner, or a.g.b and seven other >groups) but it’s worth the effort to get into that habit. If you don’t >check and backspace out the other groups, your response doesn’t just >come here – it goes to all the other groups listed, which brings >responses X5 into this group. That’s trouble – big trouble. Save this >one, there isn’t a guitar-oriented group on Usenet that isn’t mostly a >nonstop dick-measuring contest, with occasional worthwhile posts. First >line of defense: Always check to see if any post is cross posted! > The other thing is the occasional pest/pill/boatrocker/troller who >shows up on every Usenet group (I’m speaking in generalities here, not >specifics, but it happens on every group). There is a magic bullet for >those, too – IGNORE THEM. >But it takes *everybody* doing it to work – then it works like a charm. > There’s a bit of rough sledding here right now. It’s happened >before, it will happen again. But if you observe points one and two >I’ve mentioned above, I guarantee you it will smooth out again a whole >lot quicker than if you don’t. >The Old Guy >—-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet >News==—- >http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 >Newsgroups >—= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption >=— > Tony, > You haven’t given a bad piece of advice as long as I can remember, so I > guess I’ll follow this one too. BTW, I don’t know what was going on with the > thread that said you were leaving, but I’m glad you’re still here. > Eric

Response:

You have never been guilty of posting opinion as fact as far as I remember. I think I have not either. While we may believe that the other guys opinion in way off mark, we have always made it clear that it is still opinion. Sometimes it would be nice to just tell someone their opinion is crap, but I think you have more class that most of us here and would never do that. I do think that using IMO or otherwise indicating the difference between opinion and fact is extremely important here.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >>> That was before all the bickering. Maybe I’ll check in later, as in > > >>> a few weeks, to see if it calmed down. > > >>> Thanks to all who answered my questions. > > >>> Mike > > >> This group is still fine. The bickering to useful info ratio is > > >> still not that bad. > > > Everything is fine until you get into one of those "Which is better?" > > > discussions, and even then it’s not too back until a few people > > > decide that their "opinion" should be taken as god’s law. > > > Unfortunately, it can be difficult for a beginner to separate fact > > > from opinion. > > Still, it’s certainly no reason to leave. > Certainly not. Easy enough to recognize and killfile bad attitudes, just a > shame they sometimes belong to those who, were it not for intolerably > childish behavior, might otherwise be worth the read! The only thing that > isn’t so simple to work around is hijacked threads that eventually return to > topic! Can often be a bear to find the reinsertion point without losing > interest and giving up! I know some may see this as impatience but others > know it as time management… lol > I have been here seven years. Contrary to what some may think, I was > *not* a founder of this group, but I have been posting here since the > second or third day it was in existence. > From time to time, there have been disagreements withing the group – > even some moderately heated ones. But the group has never become a > cesspool, as long as posts and responses have stayed *in the group*. > Closest it has come is always one of two things: Cross posts is #1 on > the list. It is hard to get into the habit of always looking to see > where the post is from (alt.guitar beginner, or a.g.b and seven other > groups) but it’s worth the effort to get into that habit. If you don’t > check and backspace out the other groups, your response doesn’t just > come here – it goes to all the other groups listed, which brings > responses X5 into this group. That’s trouble – big trouble. Save this > one, there isn’t a guitar-oriented group on Usenet that isn’t mostly a > nonstop dick-measuring contest, with occasional worthwhile posts. First > line of defense: Always check to see if any post is cross posted! > The other thing is the occasional pest/pill/boatrocker/troller who > shows up on every Usenet group (I’m speaking in generalities here, not > specifics, but it happens on every group). There is a magic bullet for > those, too – IGNORE THEM. > But it takes *everybody* doing it to work – then it works like a charm. > There’s a bit of rough sledding here right now. It’s happened > before, it will happen again. But if you observe points one and two > I’ve mentioned above, I guarantee you it will smooth out again a whole > lot quicker than if you don’t. > The Old Guy > —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups > —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption

=—

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >>> That was before all the bickering. Maybe I’ll check in later, as in > >>> a few weeks, to see if it calmed down. > >>> Thanks to all who answered my questions. > >>> Mike > >> This group is still fine. The bickering to useful info ratio is > >> still not that bad. > > Everything is fine until you get into one of those "Which is better?" > > discussions, and even then it’s not too back until a few people > > decide that their "opinion" should be taken as god’s law. > > Unfortunately, it can be difficult for a beginner to separate fact > > from opinion. > Still, it’s certainly no reason to leave. > Certainly not. Easy enough to recognize and killfile bad attitudes, just a > shame they sometimes belong to those who, were it not for intolerably > childish behavior, might otherwise be worth the read! The only thing that > isn’t so simple to work around is hijacked threads that eventually return to > topic! Can often be a bear to find the reinsertion point without losing > interest and giving up! I know some may see this as impatience but others > know it as time management… lol

I have been here seven years. Contrary to what some may think, I was *not* a founder of this group, but I have been posting here since the second or third day it was in existence. From time to time, there have been disagreements withing the group – even some moderately heated ones. But the group has never become a cesspool, as long as posts and responses have stayed *in the group*. Closest it has come is always one of two things: Cross posts is #1 on the list. It is hard to get into the habit of always looking to see where the post is from (alt.guitar beginner, or a.g.b and seven other groups) but it’s worth the effort to get into that habit. If you don’t check and backspace out the other groups, your response doesn’t just come here – it goes to all the other groups listed, which brings responses X5 into this group. That’s trouble – big trouble. Save this one, there isn’t a guitar-oriented group on Usenet that isn’t mostly a nonstop dick-measuring contest, with occasional worthwhile posts. First line of defense: Always check to see if any post is cross posted! The other thing is the occasional pest/pill/boatrocker/troller who shows up on every Usenet group (I’m speaking in generalities here, not specifics, but it happens on every group). There is a magic bullet for those, too – IGNORE THEM. But it takes *everybody* doing it to work – then it works like a charm. There’s a bit of rough sledding here right now. It’s happened before, it will happen again. But if you observe points one and two I’ve mentioned above, I guarantee you it will smooth out again a whole lot quicker than if you don’t. The Old Guy —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

That was before all the bickering. Maybe I’ll check in later, as in a few weeks, to see if it calmed down. Thanks to all who answered my questions. Mike

Response:

> That was before all the bickering. Maybe I’ll check in later, as in > a few weeks, to see if it calmed down. > Thanks to all who answered my questions. > Mike

This group is still fine. The bickering to useful info ratio is still not that bad.

Response:

> That was before all the bickering. Maybe I’ll check in later, as in > a few weeks, to see if it calmed down. > Thanks to all who answered my questions. > Mike > This group is still fine. The bickering to useful info ratio is still not > that bad.

Everything is fine until you get into one of those "Which is better?" discussions, and even then it’s not too back until a few people decide that their "opinion" should be taken as god’s law. Unfortunately, it can be difficult for a beginner to separate fact from opinion.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> That was before all the bickering. Maybe I’ll check in later, as in >> a few weeks, to see if it calmed down. >> Thanks to all who answered my questions. >> Mike > This group is still fine. The bickering to useful info ratio is > still not that bad. > Everything is fine until you get into one of those "Which is better?" > discussions, and even then it’s not too back until a few people > decide that their "opinion" should be taken as god’s law. > Unfortunately, it can be difficult for a beginner to separate fact > from opinion.

Still, it’s certainly no reason to leave.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> That was before all the bickering. Maybe I’ll check in later, as in >>> a few weeks, to see if it calmed down. >>> Thanks to all who answered my questions. >>> Mike >> This group is still fine. The bickering to useful info ratio is >> still not that bad. > Everything is fine until you get into one of those "Which is better?" > discussions, and even then it’s not too back until a few people > decide that their "opinion" should be taken as god’s law. > Unfortunately, it can be difficult for a beginner to separate fact > from opinion. > Still, it’s certainly no reason to leave.

Certainly not. Easy enough to recognize and killfile bad attitudes, just a shame they sometimes belong to those who, were it not for intolerably childish behavior, might otherwise be worth the read! The only thing that isn’t so simple to work around is hijacked threads that eventually return to topic! Can often be a bear to find the reinsertion point without losing interest and giving up! I know some may see this as impatience but others know it as time management… lol — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

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In: Guitar Beginner

beginner electric guitar

Question:

I have only been playing for a year and a half, and the B.C. Rich Warlock, at a fairly decent price (300 brand new) is one of the best guitars i have ever played, with action that’s low enough to make barre chords easy and 24 frets for some decent solos. if you are a metal player, get the warlock. However if you play blues or anything else for that matter Peavey and Sqiuer have some damn good guitars for less than $300. for a good practice amp that would be good enough for a gig if nessecary is the Peavey classic 50 that you can find used for between 200 and 250. Hope this info helps

Response:

for 600 dollars you could possibly find a standard American strat off of ebay… like others said, check it out first and make sure the guy has a good return policy. or get a mexican strat (or japanese is better if you can find it) and a multi effect unit so you can practice with a headphone…

Response:

Tons of great instruments. Check Harmony Central user reviews if you find one you like. See what others have to say about it. Ibanez GAX70 Washburn WI-14 Epiphone LP-100 Fender Strat (mexico) There are many… personal preference as to the sound you are after. Also some great guitars from Agile and Essex from Rondo Music in NJ. Highly regarded strat copies from 99. LP copies in the 240 range. These things have rave reviews over Epi, Squire and many Fender / Gibsons. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > i can go up to 400-600.. > > could anyone recommend a decent electric to start on? i have a tak g > series > > acoustic but don’t know anything about electric guitars.

Response:

i can go up to 400-600

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> could anyone recommend a decent electric to start on? i have a tak g > series > acoustic but don’t know anything about electric guitars. i have seen > packages on ebay w/amp and all but i am somewhat skeptical of them. any > help > is appeciated. thanks. > What is your budget? > Regards, > Harry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i can go up to 400-600 > > could anyone recommend a decent electric to start on? i have a tak g > series > > acoustic but don’t know anything about electric guitars. i have seen > > packages on ebay w/amp and all but i am somewhat skeptical of them. any > help > > is appeciated. thanks. > What is your budget? > Regards, > Harry

Well, that’s a pretty good budget for a starter guitar. You can get a pretty decent guitar for that kind of money. However, you’ll probably want an amplifier, as well. As a guitar teacher for years, I always suggest that you always plug in when practicing. Doesn’t have to be really loud, just enough to be able to hear what you’re doing. I would suggest getting a decent guitar and a cheap practice amp. You can some damned fine instruments for $300-400 range, instruments that you may want to keep and play forever, not just "beginner" guitars. I’m really liking Epiphone guitars, playing mine almost exclusively these days. I also have a couple of Fender Stratocaster, for a different type of sound, but that is due to needing versatility on gigs. You’re not there yet (I assume), so I wouldn’t worry too much about versatility. However, if you’re looking to play with others fairly soon, you may want a little higher-end amp, so that you can be heard clearly above drums, etc. Note that I don’t just mean *loudly* over the drums, but clearly. Some amps are loud, but they don’t project a good, clear sound at loud levels. You want to make sure to have control over your sound at any volume. For example, if I’m playing a gig where I need to be loud, I want to make sure that I can get a good clean sound for rhythm as well as a good overdriven sound for lead, all at that higher volume. On the other hand, I want to make sure that my amp sounds good at lower volumes as well, as I play a lot of restaurant/club gigs, where we need to keep the first set at a fairly low volume. Back to your question: first electric guitar. If you’re looking for a good, solid beginner guitar at a fairly low price, Yamaha makes excellent guitars for this purpose. When I teach at the store, I usually grab one of the Yamaha Pacifica guitars off the rack to teach with. I like them a lot, would definitely consider playing one at a gig. Epiphones I love to death, even more than some of the high-end Gibsons that they copy. The Fender Squier series are good, even on gigs, although standard strats aren’t much more money and they’re more solid. I like the sound of a Gibson a real lot, but they are pretty expensive. I can afford the expense, but I choose not to. I don’t think the Gibson name is enough of a guarantee to warrant an additional $800-1000 they tend to cost. I love the Gibson sound, but I’d rather make use of the Epiphone version of it. Samick guitars are excellent low-cost guitars that are extremely well-built. As far as practice amps, there are a number of great ones for under $100. Washburn, Crate, Marshall, Fender, Kustom, Alesis, Behringer, etc., all have great practice amps. I wouldn’t buy one sight unseen, however. I would suggest going to a music store and hearing a bunch of them back-to-back. If you don’t feel that you can play well enough to hear the potential of the amp, bring along a friend who plays and have them try it out. If not that, ask the salesperson to show it to you and check out the sound. Realize, however, that all sales people are not equal in that department. I used to work with a keyboard player that was really stuck on effects units and amps that sound great right out of the box. However, he hadn’t the foggiest idea about sound issues for guitarists such as cutting through the mix, and didn’t consider the fact that I can (as a more experienced guitarist) get better sounds from different gear than he can as a non-guitarist. He was selling equipment at Daddy’s Junky Music, and was giving bad advice. I’d consider him the exception rather than the rule, but realize that these guys are out there. As far as buying on Ebay, make sure you’ve played the type of guitar at a music store or someone else’s guitar before buying, and confirm that there is a good return policy in place. All guitars are not created equal, and you can get a lesser Gibson as you can a really good Squier. It’s always best to play the guitar and make sure that it works for you before you buy it. Otherwise, you want to be able to play it and return it if you’re not satisified. I’ve got a friend who is constantly buying, returning, and trading guitars with stores. He buys it and decides it’s not for him, trades for different brand, style, etc. — Mike C. http://mikecrutcher.com "As much as I love music, I never really thought it was my life. I thought it was the vehicle I used to express my life" – Herbie Mann

Response:

could anyone recommend a decent electric to start on? i have a tak g series acoustic but don’t know anything about electric guitars. i have seen packages on ebay w/amp and all but i am somewhat skeptical of them. any help is appeciated. thanks.

Response:

> could anyone recommend a decent electric to start on? i have a tak g series > acoustic but don’t know anything about electric guitars. i have seen > packages on ebay w/amp and all but i am somewhat skeptical of them. any help > is appeciated. thanks.

What is your budget? Regards, Harry

Response:

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In: Beginner Acoustic Guitar

Guitar Chair

Question:

>You don’t need an expensive chair. Get one that allows your >feet to rest relatively flat on the floor. Preferably without arms >so they’re not in the way. Also, blow the $15 for a music stand. >Putting your music on the table is what’s hurting yuour back. You >can’t maintain good posture leaning over to read music that is on a >table. If you’re using a footstool, make sure you don’t have it set too >high. You want the nut of the guitar about equal to your shoulder in >height. Lastly, and I know this is difficult, try sitting more upright >with the guitar face perpendicular to your body. Most beginners tend >to combo tilt the guitar and lean over it so to see what they’re doing. >This will also affect your back…… You’ll be surprised how much easier >it is to play and how much more comfortable you’ll feel when you maintain >good posture with the guitar held correctly.

I’d dispute somewhat that holding the guitar so the face is parallel (I assume you mean) to your body is the ‘correct’ way to do it. AIUI, for acoustic guitars certainly, the guitar should form a triangle with your body, the top of the guitar resting at around your solar-plexus, the bottom of the guitar on your leg, slightly away from your body. The reason for this is so that the back of the guitar can resonate correctly. C

Response:

Hello All, Well I went to a Pier One Imports that just opened near my home in Texas I am 6′3" and nearly 250 lbs and have had many back surgeries. They have a bar stool type chair there with no arms but a very sturdy back and a curved bottom, in two sizes medium & high. for $69.00 + Tax. It’s metal with a bamboo like insert in the seat and back with a foot rest. Works perfectly for me. I also bought an adjustable padded Piano type stool from Bombay Co $100.00. Which doesn’t work at all, it’s now a foot rest that hurts da feat! Email me for a Picture of such if you desire. Hope this helps….Stay In tune.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Lastly, and I know this is difficult, try sitting more upright > > with the guitar face perpendicular to your body. Most beginners tend > > to combo tilt the guitar and lean over it so to see what they’re doing. > > This will also affect your back…… You’ll be surprised how much > easier > > it is to play and how much more comfortable you’ll feel when you > maintain > > good posture with the guitar held correctly. > I’m a newbie [3 weeks] electric guitar player (50 years > old trying to keep up with my teenager to no avail) and I > find myself doing exactly that – hunching over and tilting > the fetboard to see it! When I tried to play standing up for the > first time with a strap I couldn’t hit anything – LOL. I’ll > have to work on my posture. > Regards, > Harry >Same situation here Harry. I am 50+ retired and wanted > since my youth(?) to play the guitar well. A war, marriage > family and job seemed to push that goal farther and farther away. Now I have > time and will pursue this > ambition to its conclusion. I too tend to lean the guitar > towards me so I can see what the fingers are doing and > I hutch over as well to read the music. I found a armless > office chair at Staples for $65 and it seems so far to be > both comfortable and sturdy. I also purchased a music > stand, $12, and have improvised a foot rest from a > ’step up’ that one of my sons made in wood shop and > left behind when he moved away. Just from the first > tries, the instrument seems ‘balanced’ in my arms and > no longer requires a great deal of energy to hold it in > place.The foot rest is under my left foot and that alone > seems to relieve some of the back problems. The music > stand really helps out there as well and it has little ‘arms’ > that holds the music in place. My only question is: Why > didn’t I do this earlier? Again I want to thank all of you > who contributed to this posting for your advice and > experinse. > Mike

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > >Lastly, and I know this is difficult, try sitting more upright > with the guitar face perpendicular to your body. Most beginners tend > to combo tilt the guitar and lean over it so to see what they’re doing. > This will also affect your back…… You’ll be surprised how much easier > it is to play and how much more comfortable you’ll feel when you maintain > good posture with the guitar held correctly. > I’m a newbie [3 weeks] electric guitar player (50 years > old trying to keep up with my teenager to no avail) and I > find myself doing exactly that – hunching over and tilting > the fetboard to see it! When I tried to play standing up for the > first time with a strap I couldn’t hit anything – LOL. I’ll > have to work on my posture. > Regards, > Harry >Same situation here Harry. I am 50+ retired and wanted

since my youth(?) to play the guitar well. A war, marriage family and job seemed to push that goal farther and farther away. Now I have time and will pursue this ambition to its conclusion. I too tend to lean the guitar towards me so I can see what the fingers are doing and I hutch over as well to read the music. I found a armless office chair at Staples for $65 and it seems so far to be both comfortable and sturdy. I also purchased a music stand, $12, and have improvised a foot rest from a ’step up’ that one of my sons made in wood shop and left behind when he moved away. Just from the first tries, the instrument seems ‘balanced’ in my arms and no longer requires a great deal of energy to hold it in place.The foot rest is under my left foot and that alone seems to relieve some of the back problems. The music stand really helps out there as well and it has little ‘arms’ that holds the music in place. My only question is: Why didn’t I do this earlier? Again I want to thank all of you who contributed to this posting for your advice and experinse. Mike

Response:

You don’t need an expensive chair. Get one that allows your feet to rest relatively flat on the floor. Preferably without arms so they’re not in the way. Also, blow the $15 for a music stand. Putting your music on the table is what’s hurting yuour back. You can’t maintain good posture leaning over to read music that is on a table. If you’re using a footstool, make sure you don’t have it set too high. You want the nut of the guitar about equal to your shoulder in height. Lastly, and I know this is difficult, try sitting more upright with the guitar face perpendicular to your body. Most beginners tend to combo tilt the guitar and lean over it so to see what they’re doing. This will also affect your back…… You’ll be surprised how much easier it is to play and how much more comfortable you’ll feel when you maintain good posture with the guitar held correctly. — sincerely, Russell

> Can I suggest that (as well as a music stand already suggested) you > consider getting a ‘footstool’. I have one that is adjustable (it > looks like a tiny ironing board) and I can sit on just about any chair > in the house comfortably. > Ell,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is there a chair made specifically for playing > the guitar? I am just a beginner using a kitchen > chair and after 20 minutes or so my back really > begins to trouble me. Could it be my posture as > well? I have the sheet music on the kitchen table > propped up by large books. My guitar is a > Yamaha acoustic students model and although > I am moving along well with my learning it would > sure be nice if I could be a little more comfortable. > Any advice would be sincerely appreciated. > Mike

Response:

>Lastly, and I know this is difficult, try sitting more upright > with the guitar face perpendicular to your body. Most beginners tend > to combo tilt the guitar and lean over it so to see what they’re doing. > This will also affect your back…… You’ll be surprised how much easier > it is to play and how much more comfortable you’ll feel when you maintain > good posture with the guitar held correctly.

I’m a newbie [3 weeks] electric guitar player (50 years old trying to keep up with my teenager to no avail) and I find myself doing exactly that – hunching over and tilting the fetboard to see it! When I tried to play standing up for the first time with a strap I couldn’t hit anything – LOL. I’ll have to work on my posture. Regards, Harry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is there a chair made specifically for playing > the guitar? I am just a beginner using a kitchen > chair and after 20 minutes or so my back really > begins to trouble me. Could it be my posture as > well? I have the sheet music on the kitchen table > propped up by large books. My guitar is a > Yamaha acoustic students model and although > I am moving along well with my learning it would > sure be nice if I could be a little more comfortable. > Any advice would be sincerely appreciated. > Mike > I use a manager’s type office chair with arms. They > don’t bother me or get in the way and I can rest my > arms on them between playing. > See www.officedepot.com or www.officemax.com > for examples. > Most important for me is a good music stand. I have a > black one of the type you see in school band rooms. > I bought 2 clear plastic clips to hold things down. > Regards, > Harry

I agree a good music stand is important. I just use the old kitchen chair and prop up the music on the music stand. It was a good investment. It will even hold those huge fake books. Kind regards, Nancy — Take a sad song and make it better (lennon/mccartney) Nancy Rudins http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/People/nrudins

Response:

> Yes, but expensive. See www.elderly.com > Is there a chair made specifically for playing > the guitar?

Thank You All. I went to elderly.com and viewed the chairs and yes they are a bit pricey. I am going to take a trip to Staples( a office supply outlet) and see if I can pick a up a less expensive one. Thanks Again. Mike

Response:

I found it hard to play on chairs where my feet are not flat on the floor,i`m 5`7“.If i have to hunch forward the old back gets a twinge.Lower chairs like lawn chiars or sofas feel better on me…..Sundog

Response:

Can I suggest that (as well as a music stand already suggested) you consider getting a ‘footstool’. I have one that is adjustable (it looks like a tiny ironing board) and I can sit on just about any chair in the house comfortably. Ell, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Is there a chair made specifically for playing > the guitar? I am just a beginner using a kitchen > chair and after 20 minutes or so my back really > begins to trouble me. Could it be my posture as > well? I have the sheet music on the kitchen table > propped up by large books. My guitar is a > Yamaha acoustic students model and although > I am moving along well with my learning it would > sure be nice if I could be a little more comfortable. > Any advice would be sincerely appreciated. > Mike

Response:

I think any comfortable chair without arms works just fine. I tend to sit on the couch and use some pillows behind me to prop me forward a bit. As someone pointed out, they do make special chairs that look nice, but are pricey. How about an old rocking chair — without arms or with arms that don’t get in the way? Nice to be able to move around a bit.

Response:

Is there a chair made specifically for playing the guitar? I am just a beginner using a kitchen chair and after 20 minutes or so my back really begins to trouble me. Could it be my posture as well? I have the sheet music on the kitchen table propped up by large books. My guitar is a Yamaha acoustic students model and although I am moving along well with my learning it would sure be nice if I could be a little more comfortable. Any advice would be sincerely appreciated. Mike

Response:

> Is there a chair made specifically for playing > the guitar? I am just a beginner using a kitchen > chair and after 20 minutes or so my back really > begins to trouble me. Could it be my posture as > well? I have the sheet music on the kitchen table > propped up by large books. My guitar is a > Yamaha acoustic students model and although > I am moving along well with my learning it would > sure be nice if I could be a little more comfortable. > Any advice would be sincerely appreciated. > Mike

I use a manager’s type office chair with arms. They don’t bother me or get in the way and I can rest my arms on them between playing. See www.officedepot.com or www.officemax.com for examples. Most important for me is a good music stand. I have a black one of the type you see in school band rooms. I bought 2 clear plastic clips to hold things down. Regards, Harry

Response:

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In: Guitar Beginner Book

ANYONE NEED HELP??

Question:

>how about you guys all worry about phonetic accuracy, and i’ll talk about >guitars….perfect!!! hahaha

My sentiments exactly Steve

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In: Beginners Guitar

Acoustic or Classical

Question:

For a beginner interested in playing a bit of pop and classical, which type of guitar would be easier to learn on? I am a female adult of average size. I prefer the sound of the classical guitar but find both fingerboards large, especially on the classical. I am sure this is partly a beginner`s impression. Thanks, Thuy

Response:

IMO classical guitars don’t lend themselves to strumming or playing with a pick. They are designed, with their wide fingerboards, for fingerpicking techniques. They put out more sound when played with the fingers compared to a steel string acoustic, and most, but not all players, use them for classical and Latin rhythms, and they are great for bossa nova type music. Since steel string acoustic guitars are geared more towards strumming and playing chords, not to say you can’t fingerpick a steel string acoustic, they are more suited to rock, pop, and modern music. While often played with a pick, many people fingerpick them, and most "fingerstyle blues" are played on steel string guitars. Also, you can get steel string acoustics with wider fingerboards, and while not as wide as a classical, are very versatile for all types of music. IMO many people mistakenly choose classical guitars over steel string guitars because the nylon strings are easier on the fingers. If you don’t play much, and really don’t want to spend enough time practicing to develop some calluses (it’s not as bad as it sounds), you can try lighter gauge strings, or some strings called silk & steel. While these strings don’t have as much "tone" as heavier gauge strings, some players find them to be a good compromise between sound and comfort. Finally, I think you should buy the guitar that sounds best to you and is best suited to the music you love to play. Find out what your favorite artists play, and use that as a guide as to what style guitar to get. Personally, I think you’ll find a steel string acoustic to be a much more versatile instrument, but it’s all very subjective. In the end, "you" have to love it. And since there is no perfect guitar for every type of music, you may very well own more than one guitar as time goes by.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For a beginner interested in playing a bit of pop and classical, which > type of guitar would be easier to learn on? I am a female adult of > average size. I prefer the sound of the classical guitar but find > both fingerboards large, especially on the classical. I am sure this > is partly a beginner`s impression. > Thanks, > Thuy

Response:

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In: Beginner Acoustic Guitar

Learning the Guitar is just the Beginning…

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